Podcast Summaries

Thank you very much. On these Sundays, we pause our normal rhythms of singing and of opening the Bible together, and we focus our energy on looking outwards, on serving our neighbours practically, and learning about God's heart for those outside of the church. We've been doing this since the very beginning of Gloucester Vineyard Church, about seven and a half years ago, and it's taken various formats. We've done various different things. Today, we have three different options that we'll be engaging with, which we'll tell you about in a minute. But I just wanted to bring, at the beginning of today, wanted to bring our hearts and our minds to a bit of Bible, to some scripture before we do that kind of unpacks a little bit about why we do this. I've got two little bits. There's a beautiful poem in one of the letters to the early church, which describes what Jesus has done for us, and it says this. Though he, Jesus, was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, he gave up his divine privileges. He took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. Jesus came to serve. He came to give himself away, to give himself up in preference of others. And when Jesus was speaking with his disciples, he says this in the book of John. He says, this is my commandment, love each other in the same way that I have loved you. There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends. You are my friends if you do this what I command. And so we're invited to give up our comfort, to give up our privilege, to give up our individual desires in deference to another. Giving up our life for another is the greatest way that we can show love to the world and engage with Jesus's love for us. And so I invite you today to consider this Super Sunday as a demonstration of love to God and of love to others, to engage with that kind of formational moment that this can be in becoming more like Jesus. So we will be continuing with three things that are going to be happening this afternoon that we will take you through and then we will disperse. So can I have a Bridget, a Daniel, or a Mumbles, Daniel, and a James? Yes. Marvelous. We have three options of what we're going to be doing, which is our practical loving of God and loving of people this week. So have a listen to these. Have a think. Does any of them make you feel, ooh, that's a bit out of my comfort zone? Listen to that and maybe engage with it. Is there anything that you're like, that has stirred something in my heart? I'm like, I love that. Engage with that. So Bridget, what are you doing and where can we meet you? Thank you. So I help to run Grow Baby, which is our free shop for families that are in need in Gloucester. So we are going to be sorting through some things today, organizing Grow Baby with some of the donations that we've had in. You can meet me over there in the church hall. Marvelous. So we've got Grow Baby. Hello. I'm going out with hopefully loads of you to do some litter picking and some praying. And if you don't think that goes together, well, litter picking is just a great thing to do. And for the world we live in, it's a bit of a mess some of the time. And God tells us to be stewards of it. But also he tells us to be servants. And we want to serve our community by picking up the litter. But we can also serve in a spiritual way as well. Well, litter picking might be spiritual as well. But if we encounter people, we can pray for them. We can pray for people's houses and businesses as we walk past them. So all that sort of stuff is really exciting. And we will gather over in the hall in a couple of minutes and give you your high-vis jackets, have a bit of a brief, a bit of a pray, and then go. Crack it. Give them a whoop. Thank you. Daniel, what are you doing today? Okay, so as a church, we are taking kind of 12 months. So the kind of litter picking and sorting out baby clothes is the kind of stuff that we would normally do as a church. At the moment, we're doing something a little bit extra because as a church, we are in a moment of preparation. We're going to be multiplying this church into two expressions in the new year. And so one of the things that we're doing at the moment is we're investing in the community. We're doing some little workshops to just kind of grow in our skills of how to create community, how to be outward focused as a community. And that's what we're going to be doing today. So quick show of hands, who here enjoys food? Yes. Show of hands, who enjoys preparing food? Who likes cooking it? Yes. Now, has anybody who likes cooking food ever found that cooking for more than six or eight people is quite challenging? Anybody ever had that experience? Yes. So I have had that experience. I like preparing food, but I found that when I'm cooking for a larger group of people, it gets monstrously complicated quite quickly. And so what we're going to be doing today is one of the things that we believe as a church is that eating food together, preparing big meals together is one of the most powerful tools we have for creating community. So we're going to be unpacking that thought a little bit, and we're going to be talking about some really helpful little hints and tips and hacks and things that me and my dear mother, Mumbles, have learned over the years. Because Mumbles is a Jedi, and she will be sharing her knowledge with us. And so we're going to be doing a really practical workshop on how can you cook for more than six or eight people and it not be total stress overload, hopefully. How does that sound? So we're going to be in here, and it's going to be very laid back, lots of questions. We're going to talk a lot about food. I'm excited. Yay, can I have a whoop? Absolutely. Wonderful. So we've got three wonderful options for us today. Okay, marvelous. Well, that was a lovely distraction, but hopefully that's... Give me some feedback later. I didn't get as many rolls as I saw them doing on the bake-off, and I thought, that looks really easy. I'll be able to do that. And then I was like, this is the gooeyest thing in the world. How are you supposed to do this? So anyway, thank you for coming. We wanted to do this this afternoon. Actually, when we were thinking about doing these supercharged Sundays, so kind of doing little workshops as well as doing community service like we normally do, this was one of the first ideas that I had. I was like, wouldn't it be great fun to sit down with Mumbles, who, if you guys don't know, this is my mum. We call her Mumbles because she's my mum. She does have another name, which is Helen, but we'll just call her Mumbles. Wouldn't it be fun to sit down with Mumbles and talk to her about food? Because food is a real passion of yours, and you're going to be sharing that with us in a little bit. But it's also a passion for us as a community because of what I just said. We've noticed how eating together is a really powerful force for creating community, and hospitality is really central to the good news of the gospel. And this isn't the kind of thing that Mumbles would normally do because Mumbles is gifted in being in the kitchen, creating beautiful food, and so talking about it is not something that Mumbles would normally do, which is why I'm here. Hello. So I'm here just to be helpful. I hope I'm helpful. But this is really a conversation with Mumbles, but this would be so much more fun if this was a conversation. So let's not be shy. Let's ask lots of questions. Let's share our ideas. Let's just be community. It's wonderful to see you all munching. It just makes me very, very happy. So as I say, this is one of the things that we think is really important. But it's one of the simplest things in the world, isn't it? Sitting around a table and eating together. It's something that we have to do every day, like putting food in our faces is something. We need food for sustenance. But there's something about inviting people over. There's something about cooking a little bit more. There's something about sharing what you have, even if what you have is really simple, with another person that is actually becoming a really rare thing. Where we actually put our phones down, we look at each other's in the eyes, and we share what we have with somebody else. Like when else do we actually do that? And it's our contention that mealtimes are powerful spaces, and that if we're in the business of creating communities, which we are, food should be something, these mealtimes are something that we should be doing. We should be using a lot more often. So Mumbles and I are excited to be doing this today because we have a shared passion for food. We love everything about it. We love preparing it. We love serving it. Maybe not washing up from it so much. But in particular, we both really enjoy the challenge and the joy of feeding large groups of people. And you're probably here because you are the same in some way. You're probably here because you enjoy creating food, or maybe you just like eating and you wanted to talk about food. No judgment here. And like I say, you might well have found, as we found, that when you cook for three or four people, it's fairly simple. Most recipes are designed for that. When you cook for six people or

You've come home, somebody has made you dinner, and as you open the door the smell just wafts over you and you go, oh yes, what is that food? What is that ultimate comfort food? Who's got one? Who's got one ready and loaded? Rosie? Chicken pie. Oh, chicken pie. What trimmings, please? All of them. All of the trimmings. Every trimmings. What else? Who else has got one? Okay, yes, Chloe, I'm coming to the back. What have you got? Any type of creamy pasta. Oh yes, pasta is life. Ronald? Gourmet steak. Oh, gourmet steak. Anybody else for the old steak? Who's joining for the steak? Benjamin, what have we got? Toad in the hole with mash. Oh, that's a great answer. You guys, what have we got? We'll start with you, Sarah. You'll have a... Fish pie with prawns. Oh, yeah. Lasagna, maybe? Yes. Porker? Sorry? Porker. What's that? A burger? A burger? Oh, come on, sorry, I didn't hear you. Go on, Andrew, have you got one? Chicken wings. Chicken wings, yes, hallelujah. Okay, anybody else? Everybody gets an opportunity. Curry. Curry, yes. Waft of lovely curry. Anybody from this row? Lasagna, it's been said. Roast dinner, yeah. Anybody? Anybody? Yes, go on, boy. Enchiladas. Oh, enchiladas is good. I think mine would be one of Mumble's recipes, which is pork in barbecue sauce, which is a bit of a family recipe. But once you've had it once and you smell it and you're like, oh, yes. Oh, yes. I'm home. What would your answer be? What's your ultimate comfort food? Probably a Thai, beef Thai curry with sticky Thai rice. Delightful, delightful. So, Mumbles, I've said far too much already. Why don't you tell us from your perspective, what is your relationship to food and hospitality and why do you think it's so important? Well, I'll start at the beginning, really. I've always had quite a good understanding that sharing food equals community. And for me, cooking is always from scratch. I was brought up in a village in India and community meals meant things like walking to the church picnic alongside the goat that was destined for the curry. If we wanted English food, we had to make it from scratch because you couldn't just go out and buy it. And one lovely thing that I remember, which I found it really odd because it's obviously different what different people remember, but my dad didn't remember this because he's obviously not interested in food. But at Christmas time, my mum would bake English cakes, loads of English cakes for days and days. And then on Christmas Day, we'd get a stream of villagers coming out from the village and they'd swap what they'd been making for their Christmas. Because essentially, our village was a Christian village, so they celebrated Christmas. And so they'd come out from the village and bring all their sort of delicacies and we'd swap delicacies. And I thought that was a lovely thing. I couldn't believe my dad couldn't remember that. But anyway, so that's sort of where I came from. And coming back to England, we were part of a church where whole church meals were a normal part of church life and sort of bringing share meals and whatnot. And the whole of our married life has revolved around hospitality in one way or another. And apart from feeding Jem, the four kids, although I've had no formal training apart from my hygiene certificates, I've always been involved in catering in the church, doing church functions, weddings, birthday parties. I've worked in a school kitchen, worked as a catering manager at Conference Centre. I've owned a coffee shop and a bed and breakfast. Basically, my whole life has been revolved around hospitality in one way or another. And in the past, when we've run home groups, we've always eaten together regularly. And I really feel that that brings a sort of really good level of community in the home group. And it's one of those things where you lose all your inhibitions with people when you're eating. You lose your, you forget that you're trying to be prim and proper and you forget that you're trying to be, you just be yourself when you're sitting down eating with people, especially if you have a glass of wine with it. Absolutely. For me, feeding people is the way I worship. And so, for instance, when we go away on the weekend away, people would be like, oh, you don't want to be in the kitchen. But yeah, I do want to be in the kitchen because that's the way I worship God. And so that's me. What about you guys? Romans 12, 13 says, always be eager to practice hospitality. So basically, God expects all of us to be hospitable, not just people who have the gifting for it. I mean, I don't have the gifting for this at all. So, you know, I think sometimes we have to step outside of our comfort zones and do things that are not in our gifting. Do you have to have a degree from the Cordon Bleu Cookery School to practice hospitality? No, you don't. To me, hospitality to me is a student with a can of beans and two slices of bread. It's not important what you're eating. It's the company. It's the sharing of lives that's important. At the beginning of our services, we always say we are creating communities. Community to me revolves around food. When you eat together, you relax, you let down your guard, you show yourself with people. And for me, it's one of the best ways of getting to know people. Agreed, right? Yeah. As we were preparing this, we sat down to plan this and we talked for over an hour and a half. And I had to be like, we have to stop this. I have other things that I need to do. Because there was so much that we thought of to say. And one of the things that I just wanted to quickly add to that, I loved how you've said that for you, preparing food is an act of worship. I think that that's really beautiful. And I think that there will be others of us in the room who will resonate with that. And one of the things that occurred to me was like, many of us will have had experiences of experiencing God through our senses. Maybe we go out for a walk in nature. Maybe we walk into a beautiful cathedral and we see something which is beautiful and God speaks to us through that sensual experience. Or maybe we hear a piece of music, a beautiful piece of music. Maybe we see a beautiful piece of artwork or there's something about a sense engaging us and we encounter God in our senses. Why not for food? Why would it be different for food? Why would we think that we wouldn't encounter God's goodness when we eat something delicious, when we smell something delicious, when we prepare something beautiful? I think that's absolutely, totally valid. And I also love what you've said about that thing about eating together being a big social leveler. I think it's one of those things where it can be if we want it to be. I've been very lucky to travel around the world a little bit in my life and I've been to some cultures where how you eat a meal kind of dictates the social standing. And so the most important people will sit down first, they'll be given the best cuts. The least important people will leave the room and wait until the more important people have finished eating. And one of the things that I love about our faith and about Christianity is that we're encouraged to eat together, sat next to one another, that nobody gets a preferential portion, nobody eats before anybody else. We all sit down and we eat together. There is something beautifully, what's the word I'm looking for? Something that dismantles hierarchies. Something very kind of socially leveling about sitting at a table together, each of us, no matter who we are and where we're coming from and eating the same thing as each other. It's beautiful, isn't it? It's quite a powerful statement, I think. And so that's what we're doing today. And so let's get really practical. That's the kind of why. Why do we think food is important? Let's get super, super practical. Mumbles, why don't you just walk us through your process a little bit? Let's say, for example, I've said to you, ah, Mumbles, I have 30 people coming over for a thing. Please, please would you cook some delicious food for it? What is the first thing that you do? Panic. Flip, not another one. Praying is a good place to start. I can't honestly say that it's always my first port of call, but things always run smoother if I do pray first. The trouble is I'm so used to the process now that I begin to rely on my muscle memory, but quite often I can think, well, this isn't gelling. Why isn't this gelling? And I think, well, I haven't actually prayed about it. And God actually cares about that sort of stuff. I'm afraid I'm one of those very annoying people that prays for a parking space because it stresses me out. And God cares about what stresses you out. So pray about what you're doing because he cares. And I know in some ways it's just food, but it isn't just food. Yeah, definitely pray. You're doing it as a service to God. It's not trivial. It's kingdom building. God's gives people gifts and practical skills. I often think of, what's his name, Bezal in Exodus 31, who God filled with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and skill. God gives us skill. He gives us...

So whatever skill you've got, God is quite capable of giving you more skill in that area. So whatever skill you've got, God is quite capable of giving you more skill in that area. So whatever skill you've got, God is quite capable of giving you more skill in that area.

definitely. So basically I would prep all the vegetables first and then I would probably have them side by side I'm afraid. I don't know whether that's ethical or not. In the separate pans and I would cook them, you know, the meat in one pan and the vegetarian thing in another pan. Obviously a vegetarian dish, if you're doing a lamb something, that's going to take a lot longer to cook than a pumpkin something. So you need to be aware of that, that the vegetarian dish will probably take a lot less time to cook than the meat dish will. But I cook them at the same sort of time. So then you're not making a meat dish, then making a vegetarian dish. It takes absolutely forever. It's cutting some of the stress out by... Yeah. Ronald, do you wanted to add something? Just when you mentioned the meat substitute, are you disendorsing corn? I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Mumbles wouldn't touch corn with a barge pole, but it's okay if you would. That's okay if you would. If you do that, you do that. You've got to do you. Yeah. Corn. Corn with a quack. Corn. If you were cooking for lots of people, would you do one dish for everybody or would you say, well, there's 30, so I'll do three different dishes, like one per 10 people? Because when I've cooked for a lot of people, it's hard to know what everyone is actually going to eat. When I cook for my family of five, sometimes I do five different dinners. So do you try and have everyone sitting, eating exactly the same? Or how do you deal with that? I'm afraid I do. But that's just me. I never used to change. I never used to... I'm afraid I was one of those horrible mothers that didn't make lots of different meals for their children. Didn't do me no harm. If they didn't like what I was cooking, they went hungry. So I'm afraid... I suppose I've got that sort of mindset. So although I'm happy to do... I would be happy to do lots of different meals or different... You know, different gluten-free one and a vegetarian one. I probably wouldn't because it always takes me quite a long time to do whatever meal I'm cooking. And I really enjoy doing it. But to do like a beef dish, a chicken dish, I think I would find that quite stressful. Because you and I have a slightly different approach here, which is one of the things I was going to say, which is where you will kind of go, I'm making chicken curry. So I'm going to kind of hoik... Before I put the chicken in, I'm going to sub some pumpkin in and have two very similar curries on the boil at the same time. I would... I find that more stressful. So what I try and do is take everybody's intolerances and allergies and preferences and create one meal that ticks all of the boxes, which can be a lot harder. And obviously the more people that you invite over, the trickier it becomes because the more likely you are to have another kind of... another thing to work around. But yeah, there are a few things that you can make and we'll talk about them a little bit later, which we kind of call one dish to rule them all, which is like, just it's like it's gluten-free, dairy-free, it is vegan, it is pretty simple and everybody seems to like it. And so there's a couple of those which we'll mention later on if that's your thing. Don, you had a question. It was just on that substitute question, because I think you have a non-beef version for mince products. Oh, yes. So Daniel, I think that's probably more Daniel than me, isn't it? When you make a beef chilli. Yes, if I'm going to make a... If I make chilli or bolognese at all now, I don't use beef. Sorry, farmers. I use chickpeas. And so I've found that if you mince up some chickpeas in a food processor and add a bit of... and add some beef stock as well. That makes it non-veg. Oh, no, sorry, that's quite right. Sorry, no. So we're getting to this. The ground up bits of cow, you can't use those. But what you can use, and this is like my favourite hack, is Marmite. Marmite, Marmite, Marmite, Marmite, Marmite. Yeah, you may not... Don't knock until you tried it. Yeah, it's funny actually. If you... You may dislike Marmite on your toast, but if you put a tablespoon full of Marmite in things like macaroni cheese, veggie curries, or veggie anything, it just brings a little umami flavour to everything. So one of the things is that when I'm making a bolognese or a chilli, yes, the Marmite, but I'll also cook it for a really, really long time. So slow cookers, I think, are really, really important because everything then just melts down together. And I have this... So one of my one dish to rule them all is veggie chilli, which has minced up chickpeas in it and some Marmite. And I've served it to people and said, there's something missing from this, what's missing? And a few times people have not been able to tell there's no meat in it. But you do have to cook it for quite a long time until it all becomes a big kind of dark, beautiful conglomeration of flavours. Chloe had a question or a comment. How do you cope when your equipment is at max capacity? Buy more equipment. I was going to say... No more storage in a galley kitchen. Yes, I'm afraid in the past I've sort of thought, right, I need this and bought it. Oh, you could borrow from other people. I mean, you know, if you have that problem, you're always welcome to borrow anything from me. I've got loads of stuff you can borrow. Sometimes. Usually. No, they usually return it. That is one of the challenges I find when cooking for a big group is because when we've gone through the process and you've prayed about who you want to cook for, you know who's coming, my imagination starts to fire and I think, oh, I'll make lasagna or something. And then you go, I don't have any pans that are big enough for lasagna. So at that stage, I think a helpful thing to come in is to kind of go, what can I do? It's like, oh, I would really love to do lasagna for 40, but actually I don't have enough pans, so I might just have to divorce myself from that idea. And so maybe like before the what shall I make thing is like, how can I do something that's going to be low stress? So like a big slow cooker pot of something might be preferable to sheets and sheets and sheets. Like doing pizza for loads of people is a nightmare. Anyone ever tried that? It's a nightmare because most ovens, you're like, you can get four shelves in and it cooks so much slower than you've got four. And then you're like, I've got like 20 hungry teenagers out there. And so like you think pizza, it's so easy. No, it's an absolute nightmare. Oh, well, you could get takeaway pizzas, moneybags, if you like. But I think, you know, that's where community comes in. Have you got a pan that I can borrow? Have you got, and you remember you borrowed my tablecloth that time. So, yeah, just borrow things off people. And I found a steamer works sometimes when you need more hob space. That's a good idea. Yeah. To use it. Sorry, that was use a steamer. Steamers can be very helpful to save some hob space. Are we on to hacks now then? We can be. Who are you calling a hack? Hang on, where do we get to? Yeah, so I just wanted to say a couple of really quick. So we mentioned about one dish to rule them all. Chilli, veggie chilli is one of them because it's rice that goes with it. So that's gluten free. So rice and veggie chilli, that's a good one. And paella, I found is a really, really good one dish to rule them all because you can cook some chorizo if you are, and you can just kind of add it in at the last minute. So that's kind of borrowing Mumbles' technique. But you can make quite a nice veggie paella, which is completely gluten free. And then as Mumbles has said, curry. Like a really beautiful butternut squash curry with some chickpeas, some spinach, maybe a bit of coconut cream in it. Delicious. If you get those spices right, you've gone. Beautiful. It can be like really super simple that everybody can eat. And nobody will notice that there's no meat in it, no gluten in it, no dairy in it. Easy peasy. Yeah, did you want to mention some hacks, Mumbles? Oh, well, only if we've got there. It was just thinking about that. One of my hacks is that, and this is the sort of thing that, this is a chefy thing that they will do in the kitchen. We'll cook the vegetables off first thing in the morning, plunge them in ice water, put them in bowls, the bowls you're going to serve them in, and then just before you serve them, buzz them in the microwave. And that will free up some space on your cooker and whatnot at the last minute. Yeah, that's a good one. So let's talk about some of the challenges that present themselves when we cook for really big groups of people. What do you think are some of the common pitfalls and things that we can easily get wrong if we've not done it before? Boiling water. Oh, hallelujah

water to come to the boil and to be able to cook the stuff and it just takes ages. That is the classic thing of, I do this at home all the time, it takes me 15 minutes to cook pasta. But if you're making this much pasta, it takes 15 minutes. But if you kind of engage your physics brain and go, I'm using this much water and so then you plunge that much room temperature pasta into it or cold potatoes into it, like the thermal mass of that water just drops into the floor and takes so much more energy to lift that and it just takes such a long time. And also, I mean, if you're used to cooking potatoes, whatever, from cold at home, don't do it for a mass of people. Whatever you're putting in that water, the water needs to be boiling because anything you cook from cold in a big saucepan will just go to mush. Yeah, so that applies for pasta, it applies for potatoes, rice. Yeah. So the tip is get the water like rolling boil and then add the carb in. What else could you do to kind of make that slightly simpler? Because the reality is you also don't want things sitting in boiling water for a really long time. Because they go mushy. Pasta is horrible to cook for a lot of people. And if I was doing that, I would probably cook it in the morning, run cold water over it, get all the starch off it so that it's not sticking together, fridge it if I could, and then just bring it up to temperature. Yeah. I think that's what they do in Italian restaurants actually. I think they cook it off and... Yeah, for the benefit of the recording, that was a very helpful comment about the magic that happens when you cool pasta and then reheat it, the glucose somehow changes. Yeah, rice does that as well I think. Yeah, precisely. There's things about kind of cutting potatoes smaller. So that's the thing I do all the time. I make humongous chunks that take forever to cook. It's just stupid. Cut things smaller, they cook faster. It's things like on Thursday I did what you call pimento potatoes and at home they're so easy. And they take half an hour in the oven. It took over an hour on Thursday because I had a huge tray of them and I had the oven up to... Normally I'd do it on 200 and I think I had the oven up to 240 and it still took ages to cook. So just everything duplicated takes longer, needs a hotter temperature. And there's things like, there's even things like when you're doing those potatoes at home you'd have a baking tray with one layer of potatoes on it. When you're doing them for a big group they're stacked high and so you've got potatoes underneath and you think that's just that won't make any difference at all. It really does. So that means you've got to be taking them out and stirring them more to bring them up to the surface and get them nice and crispy. It's just things like that to think about. It will take longer, you're going to have to stir it. There's also that dynamic has come into play I've found. So when I cook bolognese or chili I cook it for a long time and I expect the water to evaporate off and at home it does quite nicely in it. The sauce reduces and it thickens really beautifully without adding anything. I've tried it for large groups of people and I've got like this enormous reservoir of liquid on the top that's just not going anywhere. The bottom of my pan is burning and on the top I've got this humongous flood with like Noah's Ark on it on the top. So have you ever come across that? Or is that just me? I don't know, you're not stirring it very often. Maybe I'm too lazy and I'm not stirring it enough. Well I have found that. I've got this humongous thing. A couple of things that I've found helps is number one trying to reduce the liquid going in in the first place because I know that might happen. But also just thinking of some different ways of thickening that sauce up rather than trying to wick it away by evaporation which can take ages. Just thickening the sauce with adding things like lentils, adding tomato puree. You said about adding ground almonds to curry. So if you don't have to avoid nut allergies like you said, adding ground almonds to thicken a curry. Bye-bye. That's very delicious. If you're going to touch it then if you're a bit crushed. Perfect custard. I'm terrible at making custard. I usually make like watery scrambled egg. I remember when I was at hospital the staff used to make it in the microwave. They had to get it done quickly. I think custard always burns. In a microwave it's quicker to do it with other people than do milk and sugar. Do it in a fancy way. Yeah. Absolutely. That's a good point actually. I mean making things from scratch is just because I do that just because I'm a bit nutty. But things like that, that's a good hack. Buying, if you've got to do custard, there's nothing wrong with buying a tub of ready-made custard. And things like if you've got to chop lots and lots of onions for whatever you're doing, you can actually buy and things like bolognese sauces, you need, well I don't know how you make yours, but I always use onions, carrots, celery, and you can buy ready frozen sofrito mixes from, I know you can from Sainsbury's, you can definitely buy them from Waitrose, probably from Tesco's. Probably. So if buying something like that doesn't actually cost that much more than buying all of the onions, but you've saved yourself probably an hour's time, all that chopping, and things like frozen shallots, I put shallots in my beef casserole. Peeling shallots is a pain in the neck. Peeling shallots takes absolutely ages and using something like frozen shallots, there's nothing wrong with that. And then they don't, I don't think they taste any worse. So let's just return to carbohydrates really quickly. Talk to us about quantities per person, because that's something I always trip up on, like quantities of rice, pasta, couscous, meat, potatoes, how do you think? Yeah, well I think they're on the scant side, because as you've, I mean I quite often I do too much in the way of carbs, unless it's potatoes, and if you're doing fried potatoes, people will eat a lot more than if you're doing something like mash or new potatoes. So I would say sort of 50 to 75 grams of rice and pasta, potatoes roughly 250 grams, which is like a big, one big potato per person. It's less than you'd think, isn't it? Yeah. Bread, I do one portion per person, because some people won't eat the bread, so the people who won't eat the bread will make up for the people who eat two pieces of bread. Yeah. And what about meat? If you were making a casserole or a curry, how much meat would you factor in per person? Probably about 100 grams, no, 150 grams per person. But then you would put quite a lot of vegetables in with your curries and your stews as well, wouldn't you? Yes, I do put a lot of vegetables in as well. So if it was just, if it was kind of just pure chicken curry, it'd probably be more like 200, 250 grams, wouldn't it? Depending on how generous you were feeling. Probably 200 grams. I think 250 grams is a lot. It's going to be very expensive if you start going to 200 grams. If I'm feeding Ben, it'll be 250 grams. Yes. You're welcome. Yeah. I've noticed something when cooking carbohydrates for large groups of people, and this is anecdotal, so don't, like, this isn't a hill I would die on, but I've noticed that the more people you're cooking for, the less carbohydrates you need per person. So if you're cooking for, so especially when it comes to things like rice and pasta, if you kind of apply that 70 grams per person to everybody, you're just going to end up with so much left over. So the more people I'm cooking for, I'm erring more towards 50 grams per person, because there will be, the people who will eat a kind of standard portion, and then there are people who will have a mousy little portion, and I'll think, I've cooked the wrong thing. Why are you eating so little? But that's just the amount of rice that they want. So there's two exceptions. So yeah, for me, rule of thumb is the more people you're cooking for, the less carbohydrates you need per head. The two exceptions to that are, number one, if you're creating delicious carbohydrates, they will go. So fried potatoes, focaccia bread, if you've made a delicious fatty carbohydrate, yeah, they are all going. The other exception is if you're feeding Africans or Indians, because people from Africa and India really like eating rice. And so, like, you know, just so much rice, and you're like, this is a pleasure. So much rice. So if you're feeding folks from other parts of the world, they may have a higher appetite for rice. Yeah, Steve. You mentioned demographics for carbs and stuff like that. What about age groups and things like that? Do you look at the demographic of who you're feeding and then look at portions based on that? Yeah, that's a good question. I had one daughter get married one year, and she got married in her 30s, and all of her friends were in her 30s, and I did far too much food, and there was loads left over. The next year...

My daughter, who was, how old was she, mid-twenties, I suppose? No, she wasn't, she was younger than that. She was 20, I think. 22? She was a lot younger. So her and her husband and all of their friends were at the lower end of the spectrum. 20s, yeah, 20. In their early 20s. And I did think about that and I thought, right, okay, well I'll do a little bit more food than I did for Hannah's wedding. And it all went. It was like the vultures had come in. Yes. So yeah, actually age does matter. I mean, if you were cooking for a lot of people my age and upwards, you probably wouldn't do nearly as much as if you were cooking for people in their 20s or even in their teens. What about kiddos, if you've got kids coming as well? It depends on the kids, really. Yeah, I mean, I think kids probably half portions I would do. That's generally what I would do, yeah. Unless it's you, in which case it's a double portion. When you cook a large meal, everyone is eating, there's always somebody come up, you've got any more, can I have some more? What happens if you're going to have to... Yes. Well, they just have to get... I mean, if I'm working over there, I haven't got anything else to give them, I guess. It is an interesting feeling, isn't it, when you've cooked something for a large group and it all goes. Yes. You kind of go, well, I'm delighted that it's all gone. But at the same time, did I make enough? Should I have made more? Yeah. It's tricky, it's tricky. Okay, let's talk about food hygiene. Ha-ha, everyone's favorite subject. What are the risks when cooking for a large number? What foods would you consider high risk and what should we be careful of? Probably worth just mentioning things that are just generally true, but what is particularly high risk with large numbers? Right, so generally, a high risk food, what they would call a high risk food, is a protein food that is ready to eat. So, ham, cooked chicken, cooked ham, cooked chicken, cheese, cream, that sort of thing, but also hummus, rice, beans, lentils are high risk foods because they are full of protein and the more times you heat them up, cool them down, heat them up, cool them down, the more chance there is of bacteria growing in them and feeding off the proteins in the, particularly pulses, are surprisingly high risk foods. So, yeah, hummus, that's a surprising one, right? Chickpeas, yeah. Chickpeas are very high risk because they're full of protein. So, what's the kind of golden rule when it comes to playing it safe, not poisoning people and killing people, which would be nice? I think if you're going to do it on a regular basis, you really need to either consider getting at least a level one hygiene certificate, at the very base. Have you got a food policy? No, I don't. So, the very, we have got a food policy as GVC, so the very least thing you should do if you're thinking of doing it regularly is to read the GVC food policy, but consider getting at least a level one food hygiene certificate, which is very easy to do online or read up on it online. It just gives you things like temperatures, things like keeping things cold below five degrees and taking things from five degrees to over 60 degrees within a very short space of time because between five degrees and 60 degrees is a very high risk. That's the danger zone, isn't it? Danger zone. Yeah. So, it's kind of things being warm. Yeah. That's the danger. Warm things. And things like, if you've made, there's nothing wrong with making a chili or a bolognese the day before, but if you do that, you need to cool it down very quickly. One of the easiest ways to do that is either to portion it out and cool it down or to fill the sink up with ice water and put the pan in that, cool it down, and then it must be kept in a fridge or, yeah, in a fridge, basically. If anybody wants to get a level one food certificate, just come and talk to me. We will pay for you to get one because they're cheap as chips and we'd be very happy to send you on a level one. It's e-learning, so it's a couple of hours, but we'd be very happy to pay for that. So, come and talk to me and I can hook you up. Anything else you want to say about food hygiene before we start to kind of wrap things up? I think that was it. Okay. So, we just want to wrap it up with just a few simple hacks, little tips and tricks, things that we found helpful. We've mentioned a few of these already. We talked about ready-chopped frozen veg in a bag is your friend. Peeled shallots. One of mine is use a food processor. That's what it's there for. Just chop things really quickly, chuck it in there, chop it up. Easy peasy. And one of those like soupy blender things. Those things are great. That's it. Brilliant. Pastry. You're talking about, I've just got the word pastry here. What does that mean? I don't know. I thought that. What do you mean by pastry? Maybe we should ignore that. I think, yeah. I mean, if you're doing pastry, for goodness sake, don't make puff pastry. No. I'm saying avoid pastry or try pastry. Well, if you really want to make a pie, go for it. It's your funeral. It's the kind of thing that you would do if you were feeding a large group of people. You might make some savoury tarts or some quiches, as we say in church. Yeah. I mean, I would probably make, if it was shortcrust, I'd probably make it because I find that easy. But I would say, if you don't like making pastry, buy it because it's not that expensive and it's very good. There's nothing wrong with it. So if you... I definitely wouldn't make flaky or puff pastry. No, you're not mad. Not if I was doing it for a lot of people. No, you might do it for fun, but maybe not. Yeah, I might do it for fun sometime, but not. That's it. Brilliant. Pastry. You're talking about... I've just got the word pastry here. What does that mean? I don't know. I thought that. What do you mean by pastry? Maybe we should ignore that. I think, yeah. I mean, if you're doing pastry, for goodness sake, don't make puff pastry. No. I'm saying avoid pastry or try pastry. Well, if you really want to make a pie, go for it. But... It's your funeral. So it's the kind of thing that you would do if you were feeding a large group of people. You might make some savoury tarts or some quiches, as we say in church. Yeah, I mean, I would probably make... If it was shortcrust, I'd probably make it because I find that easy. But I would say, if you don't like making pastry, buy it because it's not that expensive and it's very good. There's nothing wrong with it. So if you... I definitely wouldn't make flaky or puff pastry. No, you're not mad. Not if I was doing it for a lot of people. No, you might do it for fun, but maybe not. Yeah, I might do it for fun sometime, but not. That's it. Brilliant. Pastry. You're talking about... I've just got the word pastry here. What does that mean? I don't know. I thought that. What do you mean by pastry? Maybe we should ignore that. I think, yeah. I mean, if you're doing pastry, for goodness sake, don't make puff pastry. No. I'm saying avoid pastry or try pastry. Well, if you really want to make a pie, go for it. But... It's your funeral. So it's the kind of thing that you would do if you were feeding a large group of people. You might make some savoury tarts or some quiches, as we say in church. Yeah, I mean, I would probably make... If it was shortcrust, I'd probably make it because I find that easy. But I would say, if you don't like making pastry, buy it because it's not that expensive and it's very good. There's nothing wrong with it. So if you... I definitely wouldn't make flaky or puff pastry. No, you're not mad. Not if I was doing it for a lot of people. No, you might do it for fun, but maybe not. Yeah, I might do it for fun sometime, but not. That's it. Brilliant. Pastry. You're talking about... I've just got the word pastry here. What does that mean? I don't know. I thought that. What do you mean by pastry? Maybe we should ignore that. I think, yeah. I mean, if you're doing pastry, for goodness sake, don't make puff pastry. No. I'm saying avoid pastry or try pastry. Well, if you really want to make a pie, go for it. But... It's your funeral. So it's the kind of thing that you would do if you were feeding a large group of people. You might make some savoury tarts or some quiches, as we say in church. Yeah, I mean, I would probably make... If it was shortcrust, I'd probably make it because I find that easy. But I would say, if you don't like making pastry, buy it because it's not that expensive and it's very good. There's nothing

I always said, it's not about the food, it's about having people come over and being together. And so to be able to say to someone, we're just having, we're not having a dinner party, we're having what we would normally eat. It'll be simple, you know, and setting expectations. And then everybody goes, oh, okay. And if someone says, can I bring something? Go, yes, please. Bring that. Buy a pudding and bring it. Like, then you're setting expectations. Either you buy a pudding or I'll buy a pudding. Great. But, you know, if you want to bring a pudding, whatever. So setting expectations and then, yeah, just saying, this is nothing fancy. This is so we can enjoy time. I think that is, do you want to say something about that? Nope, that's fine. Yeah, I 110% agree with that. And I think that what Diane said there actually applies across the board of how we think about what we do as a church. Whilst, yes, we want to do things in a way that is excellent because we want people to encounter a God who is excellent and generous. At the same time, we're trying to create community. And so what we don't want to do is say, if you're going to feed people, it has to look like this. It has to look like that, blah, blah, blah. If you think about inviting the people from your neighborhood over, and when they come over to your house, you've prepared a three-course meal which has cost you £65 to make and your house is spotlessly clean and you're wearing a tuxedo. Then if they're going to want to reciprocate and say, with a very polite British thing of, why don't you come over to my house? Then the message is, I need to spend £65 on a meal and wear a tuxedo and hoover my house. And so this is no joke. If you've ever been around to our house before, you will have noticed it's quite messy in our house. And that's because we have children. And so we might hoover before you come over, but that'll probably be it. And that's on purpose because we want you to come into our home and go, ah, it's kind of messy in here. I can relax because it's not neat as two pins. And if I come over to your house, I'm like, I want it to be a totally low bar for you to be like, yeah, whatevs, I don't have to perform. That's creating community because it's lowering the bar, isn't it? And it's kind of, everybody's on the same page. Thank you, Diane. I really appreciate what you said there. Anybody else want to add something? Yeah. I want to ask Mumbles what her opinion is of reheating batch cooked meals for lunch in microwaves. Batch cooked? Well, as long as they've been kept cold. I mean, when you say batch cooked, have they been in the freezer or in the fridge? Batch cooked something, put extra in the freezer. Well, I defrost it in the fridge or just cook it straight from the freezer. Don't leave it out on a work surface. Although I have to say I occasionally do. Basically, make sure it comes up to a really hot temperature. And a good way of doing that is to stick a knife in the center of it. If you haven't got a thermometer, stick a knife in the center of it and put it on the inside of your lip. And if it's really hot, then you know that it's hot enough. Put it on your wrist. Use this part of your wrist and if it burns a bit, then it's hot enough. Yes, just make sure that whatever you're bringing it back up to temperature, that you bring it properly back up to temperature. Yeah, I just wanted to share a bit similar to Diane really. I was working in Cheltenham years ago with some Spaniards. And they used to get to the end of the month and they'd say, oh, Tarna, we have no money. You are welcome to our house, but we will have potatoes and carrots. And I used to go to their house at the end of the month and have the most delicious potatoes and carrots. I don't know what they did with them, but they were amazing. But more than that, it was the being together and the sharing the time together. It was just so precious. Absolutely. Yes. Can I just say something from being on the receiving end of hospitality? Because, I mean, for us, we don't want the people providing the hospitality to be stressed about what they're doing for us. I mean, that will make us feel awkward. So please, when you're providing for other people, don't put yourself in a stressful position because it's not going to bless you and it's not going to bless the people you're trying to bless. And I can tell you from our angle, we don't care what we receive. We're just grateful that people have opened their homes and been kind and loving enough to give us some food. We literally don't care what it is. The important bit is that people have opened their homes and been loving towards us. What it is doesn't matter. Beans on toast is good, especially if it's got poached egg with it. I feel like you slightly undercut your point there by adding the poached egg bit at the end. As long as it's got a lovely hollandaise sauce on the side, that's fine. Great. Should we pray, guys, and then should we go over? Father God, we thank you. We thank you for your love for each of us. We thank you for your heart for hospitality. And Lord, we thank you for Mumbles. And we thank you for people like Mumbles who think in terms of food, who want to express their worship and their creativity through food, who want to bless people and serve people with meals and with hospitality. Lord, we pray that you would be forming us into a church who understands how to create community in all sorts of ways, and particularly a church who is generous with our homes, with our dinner tables, with the food that we eat and the time that we share. Lord, we ask you to come and form us and help us. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you, guys. Thanks for coming along. Can we give Mumbles a massive round of applause? That was really fun. Thank you.